Target ID not recognized by Pickit

[Hornet125]

known_good_programmable_pic.jpg

16fgoodPIConPGD

(125.25 KiB) Downloaded 1391 times

I have a 18F4431 board I have made and am trying to connect the PICKIT 3 (sure electronics clone) to it to program the hex file. I am getting a Target Device ID (00000000) does not match expected Device error.

I have the same board working with a 16F so the programmer is verified operational. It identifies and programs the chip no problem. I have troubleshot everything I can think of and am now waiting for a Microchip Pickit 2 to arrive as a last resort. In the meantime perhaps some expert troubleshooters can help... Here is what I have:

I have correct wiring, MCLR pulled high with a 10K resistor. VDD is 4.93 and ground and VDD connected to all power pins. No hardware is on PGD or PGC. There was some LEDs but I disconnected in my troubleshooting. Good connections from ICSP connections to each pin. I have tried it with .1mf caps and without between Vgnd and Vdd. I have tried a 500ohm resistor between PGD and ground and without.

I can erase the memory and read the memory but cannot identify the chip or program it. MCLR does get to 13v when pugged in. I have never seen scope waveforms on the PIC but here they are:

MCLR

mclr.jpg

MCLR

(120.24 KiB) Downloaded 1391 times

PGDandPGC

18f4431pgdpgc (1).jpg

PGCPGDbad

(213.24 KiB) Downloaded 1391 times

Since I never compared a good waveform, I scoped the operating 16F PIC during the target ID phase as well. Looks the same but is at a slightly higher voltage. The clock (and the interaction between PGD and PGC) look identical on both PICs except for the higher voltage on the good PIC.
PGDgood

known_good_programmable_pic.jpg

16fgoodPIConPGD

(125.25 KiB) Downloaded 1391 times

I am wondering if the 4.4v PGD and PGC on the 18f are below a threshold (maybe it is 4.5v). I have seen the internet is full of Pickit 3 issues like this and there is a workaround by removing current limiting resistors but I haven't resorted to that, just getting the Pickit 2 now.

Any ideas on what could be going on? I don't want to assume the PIC is bad, it is usually me as the operator!

[Hornet125]

The Pickit 3 uses a 3.3v pic, and the board was supplying 3.02v from an adjustable AMS1117. I tweaked the divider and got the supply up to 3.23v but still no luck recognizing the PIC18. I'll know if the PIC is bad I guess when I the pickit 2 arrives.

[Hornet125]

The Pickit 3 uses a 3.3v pic 24F, and the programmer board was supplying 3.02v from an adjustable AMS1117. I tweaked the voltage divider resistors and got the supply up to 3.23v but still no luck recognizing the PIC18. I'll know if the PIC is bad I guess when the pickit 2 arrives.

[Hornet125]

Update for any pickit3 clone Sure Electronic users. The Microchip pickit 2 arrived,detected the chip immediately and was able to program it. While it was a frustrating experience I learned a lot in the troubleshooting and gained confidence in the process.
While the pickit 3 failed me on this chip (and I suspect one other that I tossed thinking it was bad) it has worked on several others. If you know this going into the purchase or use, nothing wrong with it but I wouldn't buy it again due to this inconsistency. Others have reported altering the dividers on PGD and PGC and others still on the original pickit3 have removed the current limiting resistors with success. For me, I'll now stick with the real deal. I am tempted to scope the PGD and see how/if it differs but for now I am up and running.

[Benj]

Hello,

Thanks for letting us know, The PICkit3 was a bit poor when it was originally released and compared to the PICkit 2 which was brilliant was a big let down. It seems to have gotten a bit better since original release as I have a new one and an old one for comparison. I wonder if the one's you bought were somehow from old stock. Weird it was the 4431 causing all the problems as this is now a fairly old device.